Our rental home had a slab with laminate flooring glued directly to the slab. If you think the concrete sealer is warranted, is there a particular product you recommend? Quick question on insulating my basement rim joist. Poly stocked at the local hardware store is often thinner, non-reinforced, and could be made out of recycled or “regrind” poly. I am sure it would be better if the vapor barrier had been tightly installed and sealed well with good overlaps, but should I still be in better shape or is the floor going to be vulnerable to wicking dampness because the vapor barrier was not installed thoroughly? These vapor barrier thicknesses range from 6 mil to 20 mil, with 6 mil being the bare minimum and 20 mil being the most heavy duty and puncture-resistant. Would pouring a new slab over the existing one be something to consider? I would recommend talking about your specific project and application with the epoxy manufacturer to ensure the process is to their specifications. So I think we can both agree on that. However, the current practice recommended by the American Concrete Institute is to apply a heavy grade, non-penetrable vapor barrier (or retarder) with the lowest possible permeance for the application over a layer of granular fill (crushed rock, gravel, etc.). I would consult the National Wood Flooring Association at http://www.nwfa.org No matter what material you chose, make sure you consult the manufacturer to ensure you are addressing the “long runs” appropriately. 5/17/2017 0 Comments … Now i started reading that this was important to do. There is a lot of cost and effort involved in encapsulating a crawl space. If the problem persists or is bad enough, you may want to reach out to https://www.nicfi.org/ and see if there is a qualified tile inspector in your area. !……please help? Basement vapor barrier . The information contained in this article will explain some of those pros and cons for basement floor insulation. Good luck! Good luck. Ground is heavy clay, no pump out – he utilized natural draining with weeping tile. First it will protect any water leaks from wall ties, or wall cracks (even ones that have not occurred yet). (Many older homes do not have a vapor barrier under the concrete slab floor.) Do You Know What Type of Foundation to Choose—BYHYU 069 . He said with all the gravel and the French drains along the edges it was not necessary to have the membrane right up to the edges. Cure with waterproof sheets rather than with water or curing compounds. Please help. This page is a great resource. our engineer require as to wrap the the precast before backfill is it necessary..?? Vapor barriers. Would that be sufficient or do I still need to be concerned and look into membranes (Platon, Superseal) that allow airflow? We may share your information with our social media, advertising, and analytics partners. Thanks for the comment. It gives you healthier living conditions. The Pros and Cons of Vapor Retarders in Steel Buildings. Apparently I may have made worse because we just had to replace the sub flooring again here within the last month. I would consult a local geotechnical company for additional information regarding performing the service. Unfortunately, a “5” means nothing in most of the finish world. The boards were removed and the slab was found to have a high moisture content. Question for you. In this article, we will be using the term ‘vapor barrier’. The American Concrete Institute states that a vapor retarder should be placed directly under a concrete slab on grade if now, or in the future, a low permeable membrane (floor finish) will be installed upon the slab. Pros. If they do, moisture will get in and that’s what you’re trying to keep out. People ask, “Should I insulate my new steel building? Thanks for the questions. Your email address will not be published. The concrete sub-floor has no direct access with the ground. When did it become standard practice in CA to use a water/vapor barrier under a slab? This can be a sheet of 6-mil poly sheeting for fairly dry basements. Potentially, the area around the perimeter of the floor may not be as well insulated as the rest of the floor and so that variation may be part of the issue. Thank you!! Thanks for all your help to this community, it is truly appreciated! So we thought it might be a good idea to clear up some of … Sometimes this is in the fine print, so it’s always best to ask specifically. Due to expenses of resident turnover, they decided to remove carpet/pad/tack and replace with sheet vinyl everywhere excluding Bedrooms, on the first floor for each of the properties. Hi, I’m building a wood framed shed 12 x 12, or 10 x 12 with a concrete floor. ... an ICF wall provides a furred out and insulated wall with a vapor barrier, all the way up to the floor joist. Thanks for the question. Coupled with a perimeter drainage and sump pump system, it also can help direct water away from your belongings. Should I put a 2nd vapor barrier above the concrete floor before putting down floating laminate floor? The crawl space fan is good, but I would also look at how much ventilation there is to the outside. the foundation blocks around the floor drain (the sump almost in the corner of the basement) have holes drilled in them where they meet the floor to drain any block absorbed water. I did pull back parts of it and fan it and used a carpet shampooer to suck the water out of the carpet within the same hour it flooded. aren’t we afraid of the water in the concrete to be leaked to the sand. I hope you can help me. Is there anything else I can do to help the moisture level? This is one reason why I always refer to ACI302.1 when discussing vapor retarder usage and proper placement. Much of what you said I’ll agree with but not the part that water will hurt the concrete. You should research them and look at warranties. Good luck. There are a million ways to skin a cat and I would definitely start with checking your local building codes for acceptability of anything you do. However, the build location is next to the retention area for the neighborhood and was making squishy noises when I walked on the ground today. Doing this lets you see what to expect if you did the whole job. We do not know if a moisture barrier was utilized or not. How can I tell if there is one? Is there a chance that the footings could fail at some point in the future? Google “epoxy moisture mitigation”. With the sealed crawl space pros and cons, as illustrated in this article, the cost may never stand between you and achieving your dream of dehumidifying your house. It was soon determined, however, that unless the seal was absolute, moisture that did get into sealed walls could create serious structural problems and health issues, such as allergic reactions to mold festering within walls. It is an old building built in the early 70’s which purchased 4 years It had mold remediation done but we do not have contact with the previous owner to query where this work was done. I have a home in West Florida with a detached garage that is a slab on grade. In this do it yourself tips guide I will explain the pros & cons of installing vapor barriers in residential applications to help you understand and decide what works best in your home. Good luck. Once you know this, then you can try to investigate solutions. What Is Minimum Lot Size For Septic System? I think he is just handing me BS and hiding behind the “moisture level” issue. We removed the carpet and had a contractor from Floor & Decor install hardwood floors that would match the rest of the house. Nick. It has been there almost for a week, and it is not helping hardly any, of course we have had some high humidity since I’ve installed it. Thanks for the comment/question. It will eventually be turned into a music room with climate control, flooring, etc.. I refer to the American Concrete Institute 302.1 specification and specifically, this flow chart: http://www.cement.org/images/default-source/contech/construction/vapor_fig2_large.jpg?Status=Temp&sfvrsn=2. Good luck. Based on the information, I really can’t answer the question. Hi Jason, our garage is approximately 12 years old. my mother had a slab leak inMay and it flooded her whole house. now i am trying to figure out what can i do to have this crawl space safe and not humid I don’t have any access to any drains there so i can’t put a dehumidifier there . unfortunately i did not . Help me!???? The encapsulation is in effect a vapor barrier. I just hit him up on Twitter and I am hoping he will help us out. The subfloor will consist of 2 X 6 joists about 1 inch off the slab. This will allow you rule out at least one potential culprit. We had a new draining system installed, Drylock was painted on the outside slab and gravel was installed alongside the house wall. Does my slab need to have a vapor barrier and reinforcement pre pour? In there, they should spell out “concrete moisture” maximums. Some handy homeowners will use it for storage as well as a work room. I'd love to hear from homeowners who have had basement homes and learn what the pros and cons are. I’m assuming whoever laid the concrete slab did not put a vapor barrier below it 🙁. I also thought about using a spray foam on the exposed slab and between crevices and on the wood joists in that area, but everything is too wet/ damp. This being said, I have a hard time believing that the concrete was dry enough for flooring installation. I have no tiling system. Thanks for the questions. Typically, the poly directly under the slab is to make a separation between the concrete and the soil to keep moisture from infiltrating the concrete after a flooring finish is installed. If that fails, I would track down a flooring sundry distributor in your area and ask them about concrete moisture mitigation options. However, they can’t stop water in vapor form from reaching and entering a concrete slab. Realtor surveys show that finished basements rank next to kitchen and bathroom renovations in return on investment. obviously we will lay plastic for the entire floor but thought would be double protection under the footing trenches and posts to protect from moisture. We thought well we’ll put on on top and throw some laminate over it, but I worry would that trap the moisture below and create a mold issue on the concrete, or would a vapor barrier and an insulation product on top stop it from sweating so much anyhow? I just had a new concrete slab poured in my basement. Thanks Jason! That being said, yes moisture vapor can condense under the 6 mil, but the odds are it will be a constant flux of condense and reabsorption back into the concrete. Once you have done this, you need to rely on their expertise to help guide the decision. Good luck on the project. It sounds like you may have a traditional mortar bed installation here. Crawl Space Encapsulation Cons. I have never heard of anyone utilizing poly to increase the strength of the concrete. Just curious if I’d have issues when the shed gets converted with flooring over the concrete down the road if I don’t use a barrier. And do I need to include a vapor barrier?” The answer is… well, maybe. Thanks so much for this article and sharing your knowledge! So I do not know if there was a moisture barrier down on the slab, Now 4 years after the carpet was installed l found 3 wet spots about 6″ diameter which have recently appeared on the carpet which I tested with a moisture sensor at over 35% ( thats the highest the meter reads) I suspect that the slab may have cracked and and any moisture barrier may have been compromised. On average, finishing a basement gives the homeowner a return of 70% to 75% of the investment: if you spent $1,000 on improvements, it would increase the value of the property by about $700. was not leveled at all. Foundation walls are underground (below grade). My understanding is that we need some kind of vapor barrier to protect against radon (even though from my research it seems the Pacific NW has a low radon hazard), as well as needing some means of keeping the cement dry. ASTM International gives specific guidelines in ASTM E1745-17 and ASTM E1643 for the use, installation, and inspection of vapor barriers used under concrete slabs. 1. Professionals recommend using a thicker 20-mil vapor barrier that resists tearing and lasts longer. Take a look at this website https://www.stegoindustries.com/. Bottom line: If you want to make sure your slab on ground gets dry and stays dry, use a vapor barrier. My fear would be more about the floor being ruined than mold. Note: An earlier practice for vapor barriers involved placing a “blotter” layer between the vapor barrier and the concrete slab. that’s the reason of putting the sheet? However, the ceiling insulation process isn’t as straightforward as insulating walls due to obstructions like beams, wires, and pipes. Good luck. The ceiling we’re wanting to clad is the bottom of the concrete second floor slab which is 4-years old and has had no moisture issues in the past. He did not put vapour barrier under cement! Added Livable Space. The floor level is techinically 15″ above grade the way our yard slopes. That being said, there are some coatings companies that use these devices in their installation documents. No coupon code available. Thanks for the comment/question. Since a basement is generally only thought of as ancillary, it is rarely used for anything other than storage. Just my opinion. We excavated the old floor and dirt put in a layer of gravel, French drains and a sump pump and then covered with a 14mm vapor barrier. i know correct thing to do is to replace the pad but i cant. I’m not sure if you are putting the “slab” over the top for cosmetics or something structural. After a drain backup ruined the rug we decided to upgrade with a porcelain 6×24″ tile so our floor could withstand any future pipe issues. Thanks for the question. Vapor barriers are less permeable than vapor retarders. Good luck. we had a plumber come out and fix it by replacing the piping that had a hole in it. I really really really want carpet, but i really really really don’t want to be replacing my carpet every two years and develop respiratory issues. I removed any tar paper that I could and placed a crawl space fan under the store to try to help dry it out. On the other hand, the sheet also helps to ensure there is a break between the blotter layer and the concrete to keep groundwater from entering the slab later in its life. It enhances the air quality in your crawl space and your house by blocking the vapor, dust or gasses from the soil. I am putting down the plastic barrier on top of the sub-floor, and then the new Pergo laminate on top of that. Moisture enters concrete in a variety of ways, including via the ground, from humidity in the air, and through leaky plumbing that passes through a slab. • Vapor permeable: greater than 10 perms. As long as there is moisture present in the concrete it will continue to get stronger and improve at an ever decreasing rate. Our luxury vinyl floor was laid directly on top of it. The sheet would keep the construction water from dissipating into the blotter layer and help it to actually dry from the slab, if given enough time. Or you might consider spray foam between the studs. Personally, I would follow their guidance. I would probably want to verify if there is an intact vapor retarder, prior to planning. How would you recommend mediation to resolve issue. I would say that it really depends on the amount of moisture in the concrete as to which one would be best to utilize. Regarding the roof coating, it would just depend on the actual perm rating of the coating as to whether it would be an effective vapor retarder. Call or e-mail 3 Pros Basement Systems for a free crawl space quote! Thanks for the question. What are the pros and cons of adding a vapor barrier behind shower backer board? Efforescent and moisture more to middle of floor than near walls. Thanks for the comment. I believe we’re now getting condensation between the plastic and the cement. I don’t claim to be a radiant heat slab construction expert, but I would think you would want things as dry as possible prior to the pour. hi jason As moisture makes its way to the surface of a concrete slab, soluble alkalies come along for the ride and raise its surface pH above that of flooring adhesives. Steve. If yes, does the slab have an intact vapor retarder? I have read that basements make the best foundation and don't have some of the moisture and/or vapor barrier issues that crawl … They told us they could only install Vinyl since our concrete floor moisture levels are too high. Posted by: Dylan from Moncton . Thanks for the comment/question. If no, then you need to utilize a mitigation product that will warrant up to 100% RH and will do so even if an intact retarder isn’t present. After my recent rain damage, I pulled up the carpet and there was already mold and smaller mold spores forming. by Rexy Legaspi. Have already spent $5,000 trying to solve this issue. Especially in a basement, I would bet the concrete is fairly wet, even if it looks dry cosmetically. Good luck. Thanks for the question. If you have a damper basement, opt for 3/8" dimpled polyethylene. As far as any topical treatment, I would need to moisture test to determine that. my issue is moisture. Well…. If you are considering a radiant system for basement floor heating, consider the pros and cons of the various types of radiant heating systems before you make your selection.There are basically three types of radiant floor heating systems available to choose from: forced air, electric, and liquid-based. A couple of the hardwood floor contractors recommended that a concrete sealer be installed prior to putting down new felt and plywood. Some companies to look at: Ardex, Mapei, Koster, and Uzin just to name a few. A vapor barrier on the basement walls is an important part of finishing your basement. So we have to balance the overall system makeup to ensure all parts perform well together. I am scheduled for concrete pouring already in the next 2 days but this situation concerns me. However, the vapor barrier under the slab must have a lower degree of permeance than the flooring (or floor covering) above the slab. I, personally, have never heard of Drylok, but I can tell you that there are numerous products on the market that can help with issues like you have described. Previous owner infilled between the columns with stud wall, however never raised the floor. We are in Florida and would like to know the best method for installing 6 mil poly vapor barrier over our concrete slab, prior to putting down laminate flooring. I did notice that this past summer was extremely hot and humid and there was wet areas on the floor. Is this existing construction? Crawlspace Encapsulation Charlotte NC Basement Waterproofing, Spray Foam Insulation and Vapor Barrier Installation Service With The Carolina Crawlspace Pros Skip to content We Are Veteran Owned And Operated - All Products Made In The U.S.A. - Call Us Today - (704) 774-6770 We have had carpet with a mold resistant pad for the past 6 years. A vapor barrier can act as a very effective air barrier, but an air barrier does not (and should not) always stop vapor from difusing. I asked him to get his moisture reader and just measure it. Do you have any suggestions? I would always have to defer back to your local building code on this. These usually aren’t inexpensive, but they are better that some alternatives like replacing flooring or replacing the concrete slab. Is there something I need to be aware of and watching for in having a concrete floor as my flooring? I really have no recommendations to add. There should be more than a 5 degree temperature variation between actual and calculated temperature to avoid condensation (sweating). Given that the “interior” will be so open to the elements, is there any benefit to installing a vapor barrier under the concrete slab? • Vapor semi-impermeable: 1.0 perms or less and greater than 0.1 perm We’ve discussed how air from the crawl space gets into … Thanks for the message. I have no manufacturing information about the construction of the modular home back in 1990 and am not sure that any of the exterior walls of the modular have vapor barrier material on any of the exterior walls. – Joe. What type of moisture testing was done on the slab, and then on the gypcrete? Thanks for the comment. This water can move up through the soil and come into contact with the bottom of a concrete floor via capillary action. This could be something as simple as varying temperatures and condensation forming on the tile. What are the solutions? 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